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  September 13, 2017 - 11:35pm
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I have no hopes for 24p. There is no indication for this in tvos11 and there is already the GM available.

  September 14, 2017 - 10:21am
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I don't understand why Apple wouldn't add support for 24p playback? They're always going on about how their products are the best of breed. Is it non-trivial to add 24p support? Given the price of the ATV4K, it should bloody well support it.

It's a head-scratcher if the new ATV still can't do 24p.

  September 14, 2017 - 3:03pm
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Its because more then 90% of the Apple TV, Chromecast, Fire TV users...doesn't even know what 24p means and that it can make a real difference. Apple and the other companies doesn't care about the rest.

Btw, this if from the macrumors forum. No 24p.

  

Just received a reply from Craig Michaels from Apple (I sent an email to Eddy Cue) regarding 24p output on the new Apple TV 4K:

Stijn,
Thank you taking the time to reach out about Apple TV. At this time, Apple TV 4K doesn’t support this output mode.
We appreciate your interest in Apple TV 4K and will take your feedback into consideration as we plan for future enhancements.
Best,
Craig
Begin forwarded message:

From: Stijn Van Nuffelen ****@mac.com
Subject: 24Hz output Apple TV 4K
Date: September 13, 2017 at 1:30:16 AM PDT

  September 15, 2017 - 12:47am
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  Toonces wrote:

I don't understand why Apple wouldn't add support for 24p playback? They're always going on about how their products are the best of breed. Is it non-trivial to add 24p support? Given the price of the ATV4K, it should bloody well support it.

It's a head-scratcher if the new ATV still can't do 24p.

Three reasons why Apple won't support 24Hz...

1.) The UI would look slow and stuttery when running at 24FPS. Apple thinks this is ugly.
2.) Refresh rate switching causes some TVs to go to a black screen for a second or two, Apple thinks this is ugly.
3.) Most users are stupid, and wouldn't know what 24Hz playback is, let alone it's benefits. Apple thinks we are stupid, and need to be told what we need.

AppleTV 4K - tvOS 13 Beta - Sony KDL-55W905A 240Hz QLED 1080p HDTV - Pioneer SC-LX87 Receiver - QNAP TS-251 NAS with QTS v4.3.4 40TB via NFS - Synology DS109+ NAS with DSM v4.2 4TB via NFS - 110Mb/s symmetric fibre Internet connection

  September 17, 2017 - 6:17am
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You can get 25Hz as output Confused :
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208074

  

If your TV doesn’t support HDR10 or Dolby Vision at 60Hz (50Hz in Europe), Apple TV 4K can use these formats at 30Hz (25Hz in Europe), but you'll need to manually select a lower refresh rate in Settings > Video and Audio. Using lower refresh rates can result in poor performance, or choppy video when navigating on the home screen, within apps, or playing games. In these cases, Apple recommends lowering resolution to 1080p at 60Hz (50Hz in Europe) instead, and letting your television upscale to 4K. You will still be able to use HDR10 and Dolby Vision at these resolutions.

  September 17, 2017 - 7:04am
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  Prelatur wrote:

You can get 25Hz as output Confused :
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208074

Yes, but only on ancient 4K TVs/monitors that don't support 50/60Hz.

However, here is the real reason Apple will not support 24Hz. This highly informative little gem (which validates my post above) was taken from that same Apple support page...

"Using lower refresh rates can result in poor performance, or choppy video when navigating on the home screen, within apps, or playing games."

THIS is the reason we will NEVER get 24Hz, while morons that think like this run things at Apple.

AppleTV 4K - tvOS 13 Beta - Sony KDL-55W905A 240Hz QLED 1080p HDTV - Pioneer SC-LX87 Receiver - QNAP TS-251 NAS with QTS v4.3.4 40TB via NFS - Synology DS109+ NAS with DSM v4.2 4TB via NFS - 110Mb/s symmetric fibre Internet connection

  September 18, 2017 - 4:27am
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No problem to have the home screen in 60hz, and 24p or whatever when playing videos. All u need is an auto refresh framerate feature. A lot of players can do that.

  September 18, 2017 - 6:01am
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  smett wrote:

No problem to have the home screen in 60hz, and 24p or whatever when playing videos. All u need is an auto refresh framerate feature. A lot of players can do that.

Apple won't do it because it looks ugly having a screen go blank. Don't you think Apple could implement this feature in 3 seconds flat if they actually wanted to?

Apple have implemented variable refresh rate support in the new iPad, so they already have the code in place, just disabled in the Apple TV.

AppleTV 4K - tvOS 13 Beta - Sony KDL-55W905A 240Hz QLED 1080p HDTV - Pioneer SC-LX87 Receiver - QNAP TS-251 NAS with QTS v4.3.4 40TB via NFS - Synology DS109+ NAS with DSM v4.2 4TB via NFS - 110Mb/s symmetric fibre Internet connection

  September 18, 2017 - 11:25am
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In my opinion judder is a lot more ugly.
If I look at my Oled TV and my Samsung UHD Player there is a nice UI and the screen is not getting black when switching to 24p for example. OK, my projector is doing that.
It would be also easy for Apple to add the auto framerate feature as an optional.

I earn a lot of multimedia player and im kind of an apple freak, I also love the Apple TV for some sort of things. But if it comes to watching movies on the big screen I really can't use the Apple TV because of the missing 24p.

  September 18, 2017 - 3:33pm
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There is really not any streaming device that does 24fps for streaming content to my knowledge. Streaming services don't really support it just like cable TV doesn't.

People who want 24fps usually want it for local content. For that nVidia Shield is the only option I know that does 24fps.

With the big push for HDR which by definition is not 24fps I can see why it is considered a real edge case for 1% of the population that cares.

Having said all that I too would love it on Apple TV and have even considered getting a Shield (plus it does HD audio passthrough) but from what I've seen their UI/UX would make me a lot angrier than not having 24fps and HD audio does.

  September 19, 2017 - 11:47am
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As an experiment to improve judder, I tried changing the Apple TV from 1080p 60hz to 50Hz output to my projector to see if it would maybe play my Fellowship of the Ring blu-ray mkv sped-up at 25fps (fitting perfectly into 50Hz since 25 times two equals 50) and if that would eliminate judder.

I think there was indeed a judder improvement on the many prologue pans but what I was not expecting was holy cow there was a MAJOR improvement in that faces/things remained crystal clear while in motion. (Note there is none of the motion interpolation silliness options on my BenQ 1085ST).

I was so surprised! I compared back and forth to verify. I'd never considered how the unsteady 3:2 pulldown cadence utilized for 60Hz induces a slight motion blur due to the unsteady frames. Been used to it my whole life. I suppose it does kinda make the movie dream-like when your eyes lose tracking clarity during motion.

But I like this 50Hz so much better. I'm curious if others would like this better. I just turn it back to 60Hz when I'm done with a movie in which I care about judder and motion clarity.

There are several ways to make 24fps fit into a 50hz refresh rate:

-Speeding up video to 25fps and speeding up the corresponding audio (slight pitch increase).

-Keep audio normal speed and just display every 12th and 24th frame an extra refresh cycle (creates slight judder every 0.5 seconds but not as bad as 3:2 pulldown 60hz).

-Same as above but instead give every 24th frame an extra 2 refresh cycles

Source: google: apple 24p pulldown

Does anyone know which one Infuse does?

  September 19, 2017 - 3:52pm
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  JMGNYC wrote:

There is really not any streaming device that does 24fps for streaming content to my knowledge. Streaming services don't really support it just like cable TV doesn't.

People who want 24fps usually want it for local content. For that nVidia Shield is the only option I know that does 24fps.

With the big push for HDR which by definition is not 24fps I can see why it is considered a real edge case for 1% of the population that cares.

Having said all that I too would love it on Apple TV and have even considered getting a Shield (plus it does HD audio passthrough) but from what I've seen their UI/UX would make me a lot angrier than not having 24fps and HD audio does.

There a lot of players that can play local content with 24p. Blu ray Players, Dune HD, Popcorn Hour, Zappiti, WD TV, to mention some of them.

My cheap Blu ray Players can play Netflix and Amazon Video with 24p.

  September 19, 2017 - 4:35pm
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Can a Mac Mini HTPC play 24p content with Plex or Kodi?

  September 19, 2017 - 11:14pm
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  Toonces wrote:

Can a Mac Mini HTPC play 24p content with Plex or Kodi?

Yes.

  September 20, 2017 - 12:09am
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https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comments/715n...

Could Apple TV 4K run at 120hz?

  September 20, 2017 - 12:25am
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Tech specs on apple’s website says hdmi 2.0a, not 2.1.

Apple TV 4, Apple TV 3, iPhone Xs, iMac 5k, iPad Pro, Airport Extreme, Airport Express, Synology DS916+

  September 20, 2017 - 5:53am
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  Linkletter wrote:

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comments/715n...

Could Apple TV 4K run at 120hz?

I would very much doubt it. Even if the hardware is capable of it, Apple probably won’t bother due to the lack of TVs that support 120Hz.

I think we are all probably going to have to accept the fact that the Apple TV is a second rate TV box, which puts all other considerations above the function it was primarily invented for, media playback.

AppleTV 4K - tvOS 13 Beta - Sony KDL-55W905A 240Hz QLED 1080p HDTV - Pioneer SC-LX87 Receiver - QNAP TS-251 NAS with QTS v4.3.4 40TB via NFS - Synology DS109+ NAS with DSM v4.2 4TB via NFS - 110Mb/s symmetric fibre Internet connection

  September 20, 2017 - 6:02am
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  jtvandyk wrote:

As an experiment to improve judder, I tried changing the Apple TV from 1080p 60hz to 50Hz output to my projector to see if it would maybe play my Fellowship of the Ring blu-ray mkv sped-up at 25fps (fitting perfectly into 50Hz since 25 times two equals 50) and if that would eliminate judder.

I think there was indeed a judder improvement on the many prologue pans but what I was not expecting was holy cow there was a MAJOR improvement in that faces/things remained crystal clear while in motion. (Note there is none of the motion interpolation silliness options on my BenQ 1085ST).

I was so surprised! I compared back and forth to verify. I'd never considered how the unsteady 3:2 pulldown cadence utilized for 60Hz induces a slight motion blur due to the unsteady frames. Been used to it my whole life. I suppose it does kinda make the movie dream-like when your eyes lose tracking clarity during motion.

But I like this 50Hz so much better. I'm curious if others would like this better. I just turn it back to 60Hz when I'm done with a movie in which I care about judder and motion clarity.

Well, it’s an interesting experiment, however re-encoding my library is totally out of the question, but I can tell you one thing, the Apple UI runs at 60Hz, and stutters when being output to 50Hz. Also all other media apps are expecting a 60Hz refresh rate, and will also stutter.

The only way round this is to manually set the output to 50Hz while watching movies and non-American TV shows, and go back in to settings at set it back to 60Hz for when your not watching movies.

A crap experience to be honest. Apple could fix this in a heartbeat, but they give games, UI and apps more priority than movies and TV shows. An odd choice, but you can see where Apple is going with this.

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  September 20, 2017 - 11:33am
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Sadly, I think Apple's logic is as follows: The more hassle people are having playing their local content, the more inclined they will be buying movies in iTunes instead.

  September 21, 2017 - 4:25am
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Well, most iTunes Movies are in 23,976fps/24fps, so they would run a lot smoother aswell.

  September 21, 2017 - 10:29am
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"The Verge" has just published their review of the ATV 4K: https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/21/16341876/ne...

Quote: "[...] all of this adds up to a real devil’s bargain that wouldn’t exist if the Apple TV would simply switch modes on your TV. I asked about it, and Apple told me it thinks mode switching is “inelegant,” because TVs often flicker and display built-in interface elements when they do it. (There’s some classic Apple-ness here.) [...]. " Unquote.

However there is some hope:

Quote: " [...] I suspect Apple will eventually add an advanced setting to allow for mode switching, but out of the box right now, this is what you get". [...] Unquote.

We'll just have to wait an see....

Regards

Rheinlaender

  September 21, 2017 - 10:35am
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There is a screenshot going around, that the Apple does support 24p. No automatic framerate switching, but u can manually set it to 24hz.

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  September 21, 2017 - 11:08am
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  smett wrote:

There is a screenshot going around, that the Apple does support 24p. No automatic framerate switching, but u can manually set it to 24hz.

Interesting... 🤔

I guess we’ll know for sure tomorrow.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  September 21, 2017 - 11:27am
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Is there 1080p24? I could live with manual switching for the movies I care most about.

  September 21, 2017 - 8:55pm
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  james wrote:

Interesting... 🤔

I guess we’ll know for sure tomorrow.

With my luck I'll be the last person the UPS truck drops off to, ha.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
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  September 22, 2017 - 1:44am
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Looks like the screenshot was legit.
here is my brand new Apple TV 4K connected to an HDR10 4K TV:

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  September 22, 2017 - 1:35am
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  jtvandyk wrote:

Is there 1080p24? I could live with manual switching for the movies I care most about.

Not on my TV, which is an HDR10 4K TV with the proper cables.
I only get 1080p60 or 1080p50, both in HDR or SDR..

But I get 2160p24 in HDR or SDR :-), which is very fine by me!!

plus a few SDR resolutions, but none at 24p.

Using an old HDMI cable and a HDMI 1.4 input on my TV I loose 2160p50, 2160p60 and HDR resolutions (they are selectable but do not work), and still no 1080p24.

I do not have any 1080p TV, so I cannot say what happens when you plug the Apple TV 4K to one.

  September 22, 2017 - 1:44am
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And here is the confirm dialog when you select 2160p24 on my TV:

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  September 22, 2017 - 2:00am
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Is it possible,
To use 4k 60 fps in apple main menu always and select the 4k 24 fps in infuse only?

  September 22, 2017 - 2:10am
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  baybora wrote:

Is it possible,
To use 4k 60 fps in apple main menu always and select the 4k 24 fps in infuse only?

There is no automatic switching at the moment.
Maybe Infuse can implement it but they would have to answer Smile

One of the reasons there is no auto-switch might be the profusion of settings you can alter:
-4K/1080p
-HDR/Dolby Vision/SDR
-60Hz/50Hz/24Hz
-Chroma (4:2:2 or 4:2:0)
..so an automatic switch between resolutions could end badly until properly managed.
Which is why I do not expect Apple to implement it, at least globally.