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#1  November 22, 2016 - 9:58am
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Update: We are now offering a 30% discount for those who upgrade before December 11th.

Since the release of Infuse 5 yesterday, it's been made clear to us we have failed to delight everyone with this new update. Part of this is due to the fact that Infuse 5 is a paid update, but a bigger part is due to us not clearly communicating the reasons behind why this is a paid update, and what are plans are moving forward.

So, for the sake of clarity, here are some answers to many of the questions we've received over the past day.

Why isn't Infuse 5 a free update?

In the past we have been very generous with our updates and provided virtually all of them at no cost. If you had Pro v3, you got Pro v4. No questions asked. The one exception to this was with Infuse 3, when we added DTS-HD audio playback and had to charge a small license fee which went straight to DTS. No one likes paying for updates, we get that. But the fact of the matter is we're a small company, and without revenue from updates like Infuse 5 adding great new features simply isn't possible.

Why isn't there upgrade pricing for current Pro users?

This one frustrates us as well, and it comes down to Apple's policies and the tools they provide for App Store developers. We would have loved to offer a discount for current users, but simply put there was not a feasible way to accomplish this in a way that was fair to all users. This is a major shortcoming of the App Store, and one Apple has addressed with annual subscriptions (see below).

Why the new subscription pricing model?

Subscriptions were introduced by Apple at WWDC in June of this year as a way to provide sustainable revenue models for developers and treat users fairly. This is what we have moved to with Infuse 5, and we feel it provides a much more straightforward way to purchase software. You know your cost (Infuse Pro is $6.99 per year in the US) and you will always have the latest and greatest version...even when new major updates (v6, v7, etc...) are released. We have also kept the standalone Infuse Pro app (which is a one-time, non subscription fee) for those who prefer it.

What about Infuse 4, will it receive any further updates?

We've released a number of updates for v4 over the past few weeks to ensure things work well with the recently released iOS/tvOS 10 updates, though no major features for improvements are planned. v4 will be removed from the App Store at the end of this month, but will remain available through your 'Purchases' tab if you need to reinstall at any point in the future.

When is Infuse 6 coming out?

Not for awhile. 12-24 months would be a reasonable guess.

What we're doing to make it right

Details here. https://firecore.com/forum/topic/17600

Thanks again for your continued support!

  November 22, 2016 - 10:30am
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No problem here for the pricing i so like the product and Will stay and use it. Best player ever

  November 22, 2016 - 10:43am
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The deciding question is when will Infuse 6 be released, Infuse 4 lasted less than a year. If I pay 13 dollar/euro for the stand alone version now and it's terminated after 10 months again I'm going te be pretty disappointed.

  November 22, 2016 - 10:47am
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This seems to be a common issue when a paid app upgrades and needs to be re-purchased. I've been using Infuse for a few years now and thoroughly enjoy it. I have already purchased the upgrade and am more than willing to do so again if there is another paid upgrade in (at least) another couple of years. This is how we keep great apps by providing a way for developers to continue developing them. Keep up the great work.

One thing I would love to see is the ability to set a default volume boost for all new videos. For some reason I always have to set mine to 250% or 300% and a preference to save me time on every video would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

  November 22, 2016 - 10:47am
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You switched to a subscription model for only one reason - recurring payments. More money FROM THE SAME USER BASE for your little company and in fact for you personally. That's it.

You abandoned ATV flash black. Now you are abandoning Infuse 4. Face it. You could just make it priced $100 and state in the description not to buy this version but get Infuse 5 for new users.

You could make this update free for current Pro users. There were plenty of options how you could do it right.

You just don't care about your current Pro users and trying to defend with some high words about Apple policies. No more trust in you, James. Good luck.

  November 22, 2016 - 10:56am
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I do support you and appreciate infuse. And I bought the new Pro version to show this.
BUT you should really think about your prices. $7 per year is a lot.

  November 22, 2016 - 10:56am
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Good start on the explanation and pinning this up; it won't fix every problem, but it's definitely a start.

  November 22, 2016 - 11:06am
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Paid for infuse 4 pro and now just paid for infuse pro 5. You guys do a great job and need the cash in my book to keep the development going.

I look forward to future updates and features. Keep listening to your reviews on App Store. Great job!

  November 22, 2016 - 11:27am
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I have no problem with the fact that Infuse 5 is a paid upgrade. I am only wondering which of the two options is the best for me, since in-app purchases can't be shared via Family Sharing (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203046). Had a lengthy discussion with an Apple Tech about the fact that this doesn't work consistently, but he assured me that in-app purchases for pro upgrades are not supposed to work when shared with different Apple-IDs via Family Sharing. In that case the non-subscription version which can be shared via Family Sharing would be cheaper than two single in-app purchases which in all likelihood can't be shared.

Regards, Roman

  November 22, 2016 - 11:36am
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What about iOS 7 users? Now I can Install Infuse 3 Pro from Infuse 4 Pro by installing older compatible version. Why you just don't leave Infuse 4 iPro standalone in App Store? Make it price same as Infuse 5 Pro standalone. Think about your users with some older devices in family on hands.

  November 22, 2016 - 11:43am
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Infuse has been the best media streaming option for me and I don't mind paying the annual fee to continue using the best features in the newest versions. Keep up the good work, looking forward to more updates with improved features in v5.

  November 22, 2016 - 11:59am
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James: Good post! This makes things to clear what to pay and what to get!
Already payed the subscription. Infuse is super to me and we use it almost every day!!
Thx!

  November 22, 2016 - 12:11pm
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James, you could save yourself a ton of typing if you would cross post this thread to the TVos subforum.

Not everyone uses the ios version and many of the question in the TVos sub are being addressed here.

Just trying to save ya some time.

•Just Another Infuse User• •Not An Employee Of Firecore• •Certified Curmudgeon•

  November 22, 2016 - 12:15pm
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I am very disappointed.

  November 22, 2016 - 12:15pm
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I feel it the same like you.

  nota bene wrote:

You switched to a subscription model for only one reason - recurring payments. More money FROM THE SAME USER BASE for your little company and in fact for you personally. That's it.

You abandoned ATV flash black. Now you are abandoning Infuse 4. Face it. You could just make it priced $100 and state in the description not to buy this version but get Infuse 5 for new users.

You could make this update free for current Pro users. There were plenty of options how you could do it right.

You just don't care about your current Pro users and trying to defend with some high words about Apple policies. No more trust in you, James. Good luck.

  November 22, 2016 - 12:53pm
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Good post, love the update. Thanks for all the hard work you guys do.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X4200W 7.1.2 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone 6S Plus ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  November 22, 2016 - 12:56pm
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  james wrote:

Why isn't there upgrade pricing for current Pro users?

This one frustrates us as well, and it comes down to Apple's policies and the tools they provide for App Store developers. We would have loved to offer a discount for current users, but simply put there was not a feasible way to accomplish this in a way that was fair to all users. This is a major shortcoming of the App Store, and one Apple has addressed with annual subscriptions (see below).

What about app bundles? You can bundle Infuse 4 Pro nad 5 Pro - then users who bought v4 could pay less for v5

  November 22, 2016 - 1:01pm
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No problem here, I'm happy to pay yearly as no one works for free ! but it needs to be with major features not just a change of number.
Anyway, I think people take developer for granted when complaining about prices like this, do they work for free? I doubt !

Anyway, i definitely think you guy messed up by launching without explanation but now it's fixed so thank you Smile

Mac OS X 10.13 + Mac Mini 2012 iCore5 2.5ghz, 16 Go, SSD drive + iPhone 7 + iPad Air 2 + Apple Watch Series 2 + NVIDIA Shield + Apple TV 4K + LG OLED C7 55"

  November 22, 2016 - 1:01pm
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Does a subscription work on tvOS and iOS at the same time or does one need 2 subscriptions then?
Though I love infuse, I really hate subscriptions! How can you quit one and then what happens..? No infuse at all anymore or the latest version you were subscribed to, continues?

  November 22, 2016 - 1:08pm
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  romanm.40026 wrote:

I have no problem with the fact that Infuse 5 is a paid upgrade. I am only wondering which of the two options is the best for me, since in-app purchases can't be shared via Family Sharing (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203046). Had a lengthy discussion with an Apple Tech about the fact that this doesn't work consistently, but he assured me that in-app purchases for pro upgrades are not supposed to work when shared with different Apple-IDs via Family Sharing. In that case the non-subscription version which can be shared via Family Sharing would be cheaper than two single in-app purchases which in all likelihood can't be shared.

Regards, Roman

Normally In-App Purchases cannot be shared, but we took the time to bake in some extra magic to make it happen. Wink

https://firecore.com/forum/topic/13168

  ProbablyMe wrote:

What about app bundles? You can bundle Infuse 4 Pro nad 5 Pro - then users who bought v4 could pay less for v5

Wouldn't work for those who bought it via In-App Purchase.

  maui wrote:

Does a subscription work on tvOS and iOS at the same time or does one need 2 subscriptions then?
Though I love infuse, I really hate subscriptions! How can you quit one and then what happens..? No infuse at all anymore or the latest version you were subscribed to, continues?

One subscription, all devices. Smile

Infuse 5.7 with our all-new Plex integration is now available

  November 22, 2016 - 1:35pm
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  reichardt wrote:

I do support you and appreciate infuse. And I bought the new Pro version to show this.
BUT you should really think about your prices. $7 per year is a lot.

I'm sorry, but I just cannot believe this comment. You own an Apple TV that you paid hundreds for. You probably have a subscription to a streaming service for which you probably pay more than the annual subscription for Infuse 5 monthly. You would pay way more than that subscription each time you legitimately buy a movie on DVD or Blu-ray so you can store it on your NAS or whatever to play through Infuse. "$7 per year is a lot" - seriously? What have you told them about the cost of a cup of coffee at your local coffee shop?

  November 22, 2016 - 1:48pm
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  arcadelt wrote:

I'm sorry, but I just cannot believe this comment. You own an Apple TV that you paid hundreds for. You probably have a subscription to a streaming service for which you probably pay more than the annual subscription for Infuse 5 monthly. You would pay way more than that subscription each time you legitimately buy a movie on DVD or Blu-ray so you can store it on your NAS or whatever to play through Infuse. "$7 per year is a lot" - seriously? What have you told them about the cost of a cup of coffee at your local coffee shop?

Just wanted to reply the same comment. Thanks.

And c'mon guys, 7$ is nothing if you can afford an apple tv. Don't be so cheap. Besides James even stated that its free for 1 year if you bought v4 after 1st August, what else can he do? Chillax and enjoy or get an alternative player!

  November 22, 2016 - 2:09pm
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Thanks for the pricing details. As I purchased infuse 4 pro on Sept 9, I have submitted a request for a free redemption code for infuse 5, as detailed in original post. I am a long time Firecore customer and feel that I have had great value for my purchases, and I think offering this to purchasers who very recently made the Infuse 4 Pro purchase is noteworthy. I also think it is very beneficial that you offer both a subscription, and a stand alone product for your customers to choose from, as obviously, customers have different needs. I still use a 2nd gen Apple TV with Black Flash/ infuse on an extra tv, and it hasn't been updated by me in 4 plus years, ( and even has features that the infuse 5 pro doesn't,....iso support). Infuse is the main reason I have the 4th gen Apple TV.

Argh,....says the angry pirate!

  November 22, 2016 - 2:15pm
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This isn't fair at all. Whatever you say, you cannot justify this greed & cheapness of yours. You think little about the user base that bought v4 Pro. I'm not asking for a free upgrade from an old version but from the current Pro to the latest Pro. That's a norm everywhere. From a very old version, it would have made sense. Not from the most recent to the latest. Thumbs down.

  November 22, 2016 - 2:33pm
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  james wrote:

Wouldn't work for those who bought it via In-App Purchase.

But You've provided Promo Codes for those who bought via IAP, so they could download Pro version from App Store.
I know this would be a little more complicated but it seems doable.

  November 22, 2016 - 3:20pm
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EDIT: i understand the need for paid upgrades and i see nothing wrong with that when the pricing is fair and communication is honest... For ages in versioned software current users were allowed to upgrade to new version at half of the price (and recent purchases are issued a new license for free). Alternatevly, when switching to subscribtion based monetization, current users are usually offered a free year of usage.

When there's a will there's a way... Pro users want to upgrade to pro, IAP users want to upgrade to IAP. If you really wanted to offer a way for everyone to upgrade, you would make upgrade bundle for pro users priced at 5 or so euros, and offer one free year to IAP users like you do now with those who purchased after august 1st (im among them).

Upgrade bundle requires no further info, but how to do it automatically with IAP so that you don't have to grant subscriptions manually?Multiple ways to be honest. Just one of them... You could use app store receipt (one seen by ios app via code) to generate one time code in infuse 4 (non-consumable IAP remain in app receipt forever and you get unique transaction id that you could use to make sure that each iap only generates one unique code). Then when user enters this code in infuse 5 (after signing in with whatever you use for that), he is granted with one year of free subscription (outside of appstore). How much does it cost? On infuse 4 its 4h to do everything, on backend its another 4h tops as its a simple REST service endpoint with one simple table in database. In infuse 5 its another 4h to add this into ui and wire everything and on backend its another 4 or so hours... So its 2 days tops or if you want to make it slow and careful its 4days... No way to do it? Just give me a break. Just cause average user buys this cr*p, doesnt mean everyone is clueless about what can be done and what cannot.

On the other hand, why bother when you can say "there was no way to do that" and expect it justifies your greed and non-willingness to allow current users to upgrade at reduced price. At least be decent and say that we dont want to do it, or we have no skill to do it, but lying that apple provides no means to do it is just pathetic guys.

  November 22, 2016 - 3:28pm
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"Why isn't there upgrade pricing for current Pro users?

This one frustrates us as well, and it comes down to Apple's policies and the tools they provide for App Store developers. We would have loved to offer a discount for current users, but simply put there was not a feasible way to accomplish this in a way that was fair to all users. This is a major shortcoming of the App Store, and one Apple has addressed with annual subscriptions (see below)."

Easy to blame Apple when you making money....
I hope I find anything better, a app to pay once and the get frr updates as I used to.
I bought my pro erlier and there is at least 2 or 3 that had a more fair pricing.

I am very disapointed...
Another thing, there has been no update for some time now, is that because you saved it to a new not free update?
Goodbye from me.....

ATV4, iPad Air II, iPhone 6S

  November 22, 2016 - 3:28pm
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  ProbablyMe wrote:

But You've provided Promo Codes for those who bought via IAP, so they could download Pro version from App Store.
I know this would be a little more complicated but it seems doable.

Not really an option, because each app version on appstore only grants 100 promo codes. And as soon as you publish new version of the app (and receive 100 promo codes for that version), promo codes for previous version no longer work. There are means anyway... Just check my post above.

  November 22, 2016 - 3:33pm
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  Troysc wrote:

Just wanted to reply the same comment. Thanks.

And c'mon guys, 7$ is nothing if you can afford an apple tv. Don't be so cheap. Besides James even stated that its free for 1 year if you bought v4 after 1st August, what else can he do? Chillax and enjoy or get an alternative player!

You sound just like an Apple fan. Had it sounded the same if applied something other than software to an Apple Product?

ATV4, iPad Air II, iPhone 6S

  November 22, 2016 - 3:38pm
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So you are not a fan with 3 devices? Ofc its the same! I pay monthly for spotify for e.g. It's 7$ ffs..lol

  November 22, 2016 - 4:07pm
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Very disappointed with the pricing decision for Infuse 5...but let me explain.
First off, I like the app and appreciate the need to keep developers fed. But...I have paid for a "Pro" version three times, twice in the last year alone. I was billed for Pro 4 on 3/21/16 and again on 4/9/2016 (when I tried to install it on my wife's tablet) due to the confusing way Infuse releases their apps (one with in-app purchase and another as a one-time purchase). When I inquired about it at the time, I was told "it's an Apple problem..." and I left it at that, thinking to myself that $30 isn't so bad for an app I use every day, right? So I dropped it. Had I known at the time that they would pull this stunt only a few months later, I would have pushed back harder.

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