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#1  November 13, 2017 - 8:35pm
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Recently downloaded a couple of 4K video files (Arrival and Star Trek Beyond, both HEVC) to stream with Infuse's 5.6 update with HDR playback. Colors and picture looks great, but even with 106.7 MB down, 12.72 up internet speeds, I'm getting buffering issues playing back the data.

Apple recommends at least a 25MB/S speed to stream Netflix which works fine on my the ATV4K, so I'm not sure where the problem is arising. Everything is being pulled off of a Synology NAS DS916+ which should be more than capable of handling the 4K demand. Wondering if this is a hardware or software issue and if other users were experiencing this as well.

  November 14, 2017 - 10:35am
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Are you streaming via Wi-Fi or Ethernet?

When streaming from a local source like a Synology NAS, your internet speed won't play much of a factor, but the connection between your NAS/router/Apple TV will most definitely come into play.

We recommend using Gigabit ethernet when streaming 4K videos.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 14, 2017 - 12:21pm
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The apple tv is connected via wifi- sounds like this might be a hardware issue if more people aren't reporting similar issues

  November 14, 2017 - 12:31pm
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I'd give Ethernet a try and see if things improve.

FWIW, all 4K HEVC is not created equal. Apple's videos top out around 30mpbs, but full 4K Blu-rays will peak around 130mbps. Other 4K content usually falls somewhere in between.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 15, 2017 - 8:27pm
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Me too same problem with 4k hdr files i'm getting buffering every 2-3 min. My apple tv 4k is wired at 1 gig and already try with wifi same thing.
When i Stream to my oppo udp-203 no problem it play fine no buffering.

  November 16, 2017 - 9:07am
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I've a related question: When I try to play a 4K mkv file (bitrate about 50-70mb/s) on a Apple TV (not 4k, the older one!) it is stuttering a lot. Is this because the last generation is not powerful enough to display the mkv? Would the 4K apple tv handle the job of transcoding a 4k movie to 1080p?

Background: I have a 4K apple tv in the livingroom connected to a 4k tv and a non-4k apple tv in the bedroom connected to a 1080p tv. I don't want to have two versions of the same movie on my NAS (that would also mess up the infuse library).

  November 16, 2017 - 9:46am
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  Torsten85 wrote:

I've a related question: When I try to play a 4K mkv file (bitrate about 50-70mb/s) on a Apple TV (not 4k, the older one!) it is stuttering a lot. Is this because the last generation is not powerful enough to display the mkv? Would the 4K apple tv handle the job of transcoding a 4k movie to 1080p?

Background: I have a 4K apple tv in the livingroom connected to a 4k tv and a non-4k apple tv in the bedroom connected to a 1080p tv. I don't want to have two versions of the same movie on my NAS (that would also mess up the infuse library).

Unfortunately the ATV4 isn't quite powerful enough to support most 4K videos.

The ATV4K includes HW support for HEVC, which means it will play just about any 4K video you can find. An ATV4K can be used to play 4K content on a 4K or 1080p TV.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 16, 2017 - 10:24am
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  james wrote:

Unfortunately the ATV4 isn't quite powerful enough to support most 4K videos.

The ATV4K includes HW support for HEVC, which means it will play just about any 4K video you can find. An ATV4K can be used to play 4K content on a 4K or 1080p TV.

Apple TV 4K in the bedroom it is. Always good to have a plausible reason for an upgrade Wink

  November 16, 2017 - 11:31am
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  james wrote:

The ATV4K includes HW support for HEVC, which means it will play just about any 4K video you can find.

What makes you say this? I've been trying to find the exact specs that the ATV4K supports, and only this showed up:

https://www.apple.com/lae/apple-tv-4k/specs/

  • H.264/HEVC SDR video up to 2160p, 60 fps, Main/Main 10 profile
  • HEVC Dolby Vision (Profile 5)/HDR10 (Main 10 profile) up to 2160p

But this page has more, although I'm not sure it applies to non-online streaming scenarios:

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/do...

  • Profile, Level, and Tier for HEVC MUST be less than or equal to Main10 Profile, Level 5.0, High Tier.

Level 5.0 support would exclude pretty much every UHD disc out there, which are Level 5.1. This would also explain why my ATV4K wouldn't play my backup copy of Mad Max: Fury Road, which was authored at Level 5.1.

Have you guys run any tests with Level 5.1 titles?

  November 16, 2017 - 11:47am
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  nickpicker wrote:

What makes you say this? I've been trying to find the exact specs that the ATV4K supports, and only this showed up:

https://www.apple.com/lae/apple-tv-4k/specs/

  • H.264/HEVC SDR video up to 2160p, 60 fps, Main/Main 10 profile
  • HEVC Dolby Vision (Profile 5)/HDR10 (Main 10 profile) up to 2160p

But this page has more, although I'm not sure it applies to non-online streaming scenarios:

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/do...

  • Profile, Level, and Tier for HEVC MUST be less than or equal to Main10 Profile, Level 5.0, High Tier.

Level 5.0 support would exclude pretty much every UHD disc out there, which are Level 5.1. This would also explain why my ATV4K wouldn't play my backup copy of Mad Max: Fury Road, which was authored at Level 5.1.

Have you guys run any tests with Level 5.1 titles?

Historically, Apple has underreported what their hardware is capable of. We have tested Level 5.1 videos here (see attached), and they actually play very well. Not sure yet what is going on with the sample you sent in, but we're going to take a deeper look and see if we can track down the issue.

FYI, the upcoming 5.6.1 update (currently in review at Apple) will add support for 4K UHD BDMV/ISO files. Smile

Attachments: 

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 16, 2017 - 11:51am
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  james wrote:

FYI, the upcoming 5.6.1 update (currently in review at Apple) will add support for 4K UHD BDMV/ISO files. Smile

That's awesome!

The sample was authored with mkvmerge 17.0, and includes two Atmos streams. Perhaps this is throwing off Infuse's demuxer.

  November 16, 2017 - 12:02pm
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  nickpicker wrote:

That's awesome!

The sample was authored with mkvmerge 17.0, and includes two Atmos streams. Perhaps this is throwing off Infuse's demuxer.

Hard to say as we haven't had a chance to take a peek yet (beyond just replicating the issue), but having a sample helps immensely in tracking down issues like these.

PS - If you feel like doing some stress testing on your end, you can grab reference files from http://jell.yfish.us IIRC, the 200mbs L5.2 file plays, but is right at the limit of what the ATV4K can handle.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 16, 2017 - 4:14pm
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The 200mbps Jellyfish plays quite smooth on my ATV4K, but every 3-5 seconds I get a spinner. Is this Infuse's buffering? (My network is 1gbps CAT6 over 2 prosumer switches, I can easily hit > 100MBytes continuous SMB transfer speed.)

Are you using an open-source lib for demultiplexing? If yes, libavformat and similar have very small default buffer settings, it's possible that you're starving the demuxer.

  November 18, 2017 - 1:41pm
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  james wrote:

Hard to say as we haven't had a chance to take a peek yet (beyond just replicating the issue), but having a sample helps immensely in tracking down issues like these.

PS - If you feel like doing some stress testing on your end, you can grab reference files from http://jell.yfish.us IIRC, the 200mbs L5.2 file plays, but is right at the limit of what the ATV4K can handle.

Hello James

I still get buffering with the last update 5.6.1 every 3-4 sec they are a spinning Wheel and its unwatchable. I have my apple tv 4k on my oled b6 and a apple tv 4k on my Samsung 1080p when i play 4k hdr movie on the Samsung (not hdr) i get no buffering play smoothly but when i play the same file on my oled b6 hdr the buffering start.
Both apple tv 4k are wifi my 4k hdr are mkv muxed with mkvtoolnix at level 5.1.
If i Stream my movies to my oppo udp-203 no problem.

  November 19, 2017 - 2:21pm
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I also have buffering problems. I have both my Apple TV 4K and my iMac connected to 1Gb ethernet on my TimeCapsule and when I try to stream a 4K movie I get constantly a spinning wheel; it is impossible to watch! The movie is located on an SSD hooked up to my Thunderbolt 3 port and provides >500MB/s read. I am using the latest Infuse pro 5 version.

  November 19, 2017 - 2:54pm
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Try setting it up as an NFS Share on your iMac and see if you have the same problems (I'm guessing you're using SMB). You can use the following to creat an NFS share:
https://www.bresink.com/osx/NFSManager.html

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone XS Max ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  November 19, 2017 - 3:27pm
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No, I am using sftp (port 22) to my iMac. I am seeing constantly Ethernet drops on iStat pro view. I tried using wireless on my Apple TV side and at first it looked fine; iStat showed a nice constant high load (I left my iMac on Ethernet) but suddenly it showed a constant low speed which resulted in buffering again (spinning wheel)! Even tried different cables. I seem to have the same issues with 1080p movies as well. I see sometimes 3.5MB/s up to 5.2MB/s and suddenly drops to 0-1KB/s!

  November 19, 2017 - 4:07pm
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Weird. Have you tried something else besides the Apple TV in the same location (like a laptop/MacBook) and using iperf to test over a period of time? Do you have WiFi off on your iMac or at least made sure Ethernet is higher priority in the network settings? Still seems weird it's dropping like that if the cache isn't built up significantly, though.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone XS Max ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  November 19, 2017 - 10:27pm
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I’m getting buffering even with 1080p movies. Granted they are large files (20-40gb). This is only with Infuse. I can play 4K HDR files without any problems through iTunes.

Perhaps SMB3 support will help improve things. Just overall experience is way slower than what i’m used to. 10sec skip is nearly useless.

  November 20, 2017 - 12:16am
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I am quite disappointed since I have now payed for both version 4 and version 5. Both seem to experience this buffering issues with large files. My network does not seem to be the issue; I am now making a full backup to my TimeCapsule and can see a constant flow of network traffic around 30MB/s but certainly no sudden drops to around a couple of KB/s.

  November 20, 2017 - 12:33am
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Hi

I have the same issue on gigabit ethernet (110 mb/s). Only large 4k movies does this (every 5-6 min)
on my server i see that all traffic is stalled for 20 - 30 sec then i continues.

information on one of the files that does this:
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L1.3
Format settings : 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, RefFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=12
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1 h 48 min
Bit rate : 39.8 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.200
Stream size : 30.1 GiB (89%)
Title : UHD 4K -DDR
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

iTunes 4k hdr vision movies runs smoothly - so i guess the box is powerfull enough to play it back?.

anyway - the whole idea of using infuse (and buying it) was to play my 4k collection through network. so i would appreciate a fix also -:)

Regards.

  November 20, 2017 - 8:40am
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I dont have any issues with 60GB+ UHD HDR files on gigabit ethernet or wireless from my local NAS. I would never compare pure UHD movies from disk that require 50mbs-100mbs data stream to Netflix or Itunes that require <15mbs for their highly compressed HDR videos. They are no where near the same.

  November 20, 2017 - 9:06am
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Same here, I'm streaming from a NAS (RAID over 4 HDD's) at a distance of 40 meters, 2 switches inbetween, playback of a UHD BDMV is smooth, no buffering issues.

For what it's worth, network issues can have many causes, and I'm always surprised how many hardware faults go undetected:

  • broken wires in the wall, reducing speed to half of what the link says
  • switches with broken ports
  • consumer switches that share bandwidth across two or more ports, i.e. it's a "Gigabit switch" across 4 ports
  • faulty network cables
  • interference from other nearby sources

and many more. Just because a connection is supposed to be 1Gbps doesn't mean this is what you'd get when streaming continuously. Even a file copy is not a good indicator because both Windows, Mac and Linux tend to extrapolate the speed, mask packet loss, or not update the UI when speed drops because of some clever hysteresis algorithm.

  November 20, 2017 - 9:21am
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  bluskye wrote:

I dont have any issues with 60GB+ UHD HDR files on gigabit ethernet or wireless from my local NAS. I would never compare pure UHD movies from disk that require 50mbs-100mbs data stream to Netflix or Itunes that require <15mbs for their highly compressed HDR videos. They are no where near the same.

I never said they were iTunes movies. They were being played through iTunes but they were still proper remuxes with full resolution etc.

I think I have found what is causing issues for me - AFS!
Moved the largest 4K UHD HDR BluRay I have, that I know for sure causes buffering issues, to another drive that is not formatted for AFS and absolutely no lag or buffering. I didn't even realize this one drive was formatted that way. Anyway, moving all the data off of it for reformatting. I'll report back in a day or two ... lots of data to move.

BTW, you can use WiFi for 4K as long as you have 802.11ac support.

  November 20, 2017 - 10:08am
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  Hold Fast wrote:

I never said they were iTunes movies. They were being played through iTunes but they were still proper remuxes with full resolution etc.

I think I have found what is causing issues for me - AFS!
Moved the largest 4K UHD HDR BluRay I have, that I know for sure causes buffering issues, to another drive that is not formatted for AFS and absolutely no lag or buffering. I didn't even realize this one drive was formatted that way. Anyway, moving all the data off of it for reformatting. I'll report back in a day or two ... lots of data to move.

BTW, you can use WiFi for 4K as long as you have 802.11ac support.

Im on smb share from my wd my cloud nas no buffering while playing 1080p mkv files at 10 gb but uhd hdr files at 40-70 gb mkv remux with mkvtoolnix or makemkv no compression it buffering every 4-5 sec i get a spinning wheel.
Either on wifi ac 5ghz or gig lan still get buffering.
It work flawlessly if i stream to my oppo udp-203. So i suppose its a problem with infuse ?

  November 20, 2017 - 10:45am
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As I mentioned I have tried several cables between my iMac (1 Gb) <- TimeCapsule -> (1 Gb) Apple TV 4K and nothing seems to help stopping the spinning wheel. The file I am trying to stream is:
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 21 min
Bit rate : 42.8 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 1 600 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.291
Stream size : 42.3 GiB (83%)

  November 20, 2017 - 11:25am
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  ronald.vapelt wrote:

As I mentioned I have tried several cables between my iMac (1 Gb) <- TimeCapsule -> (1 Gb) Apple TV 4K and nothing seems to help stopping the spinning wheel. The file I am trying to stream is:
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 21 min
Bit rate : 42.8 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 1 600 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.291
Stream size : 42.3 GiB (83%)

FWIW, the Time Capsule isn't a particularly fast device, and is limited to SMB1, so you may be running into limits of the hardware itself.

To test this, you might try placing this video on your Mac/PC and streaming from there to see if things improve.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 20, 2017 - 11:58am
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Ok i have tried different share protocol and when i Stream from my nas on smb or nfs i get buffering in every movies 4k hdr files its unwatchable with infuse 5.6.1 if i switch to upnp dlna it works flawlessly with infuse 5.6.1
With my oppo udp-203 work with all protocol.
Infuse team could you fix that in the next update i think seems to be a issue with smb an nfs protocol in the software.
Thank you

  November 20, 2017 - 12:21pm
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All my files reside on my iMac and so the streaming goes from my iMac through the TimeCapsule over 1Gb/s Ethernet connections to the Apple TV 4K using the sftp protocol!

  November 20, 2017 - 12:23pm
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  ronald.vapelt wrote:

All my files reside on my iMac and so the streaming goes from my iMac through the TimeCapsule over 1Gb/s Ethernet connections to the Apple TV 4K using the sftp protocol!

Ok, try connecting via SMB, as this is likely faster than SFTP.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  November 20, 2017 - 12:26pm
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Just throw a problematic file on your PC/Mac and stream directly from the PC/Mac first via SMB. SFTP has encryption overhead. If it works, its your capsule/nas/whatever