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  April 19, 2018 - 5:19am
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Infuse version doesn't matter, as long as you don't upgrade to tvOS 11.3 you should be fine.

  April 19, 2018 - 5:21am
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  raquo wrote:

While I understand people's frustration here, I imagine dealing with a behemoth like Apple can't be that easy for a small developer like Firecore. Apple is famously tightlipped and they're probably not privy to any information about what is going on inside Apple, and thus can't really say anything about if or when it will be fixed.

OK if they can’t fight, they can get our money back (and take back the app also)
Infuse is not a free app. 17€ dudes !!

  April 19, 2018 - 5:34am
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  raquo wrote:

While I understand people's frustration here, I imagine dealing with a behemoth like Apple can't be that easy for a small developer like Firecore. Apple is famously tightlipped and they're probably not privy to any information about what is going on inside Apple, and thus can't really say anything about if or when it will be fixed.

I'm not so much frustrated about this particular issue. Yes I paid for the software, and yes it was a nice feature while it was working. But I knew before buying the software Apple was never a big supporter of DTS, and lossless formats when it comes home theater. That's why I personally didn't put all my eggs in one basket with Apple. For me Apple TV is the only option to get iTunes content on the big screen, which was my focus of purchase plus a few content providers that worked better on here then ROKU. Anything beyond that I consider a bonus feature.

  April 19, 2018 - 5:45am
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  McLarenforever wrote:

OK if they can’t fight, they can get our money back (and take back the app also)
Infuse is not a free app. 17€ dudes !!

$15 USD for a product that does what Infuse does is Very reasonable, considering the cost of licensing to manage the codecs. I would say, If they can't have all their features work with a TVOS App, maybe consider selling a dedicated streamer with InFuse as the main software, where they can manage both hardware and firmware/ software. Also making InFuse for other platforms like Android TV, and so on might work too. Many developers who provide apps for Apple TV also have their content on other devices. For this very reason so if one feature set isn't available on one platform, you as the customer can pick one where it is. That's why I advocate cross platform quite a bit so people aren't stuck.

  April 19, 2018 - 7:05am
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  Taucheranzug wrote:

They cannot continue forever to advertise their product supporting DTS when this is simply not true anymore.

They still support losslessly decoding DTS, DTS-HD MA, AC3, EAC3, TrueHD, etc to PCM. I don't think Infuse saying they support DTS is not true, they just don't currently support "passthrough" since Apple broke it.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
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  April 19, 2018 - 7:06am
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it's not Infuse the problem. It's TvOS 11.3 and Apple. It's all damn broken. I stopped using it and switched to WebOS native apps (even Netflix and amazon). Better quality image since 11.3 and all sound format supported. I never had to use Plex before but i did set up the server on my raspberry for it and now i'm happier than before. Pondering to sell the ATV.

  April 19, 2018 - 7:08am
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  xfreeezer wrote:

I just bought because of the DTS-HD and TrueHD Infuuse 5 Pro!

Maybe you should ask for a refund. It seems like you wanted it to support passthrough of those formats, which it's never supported and the hardware (the Apple TV itself) doesn't support it, either. Infuse does support DTS-HD MA and TrueHD by losslessly decoding those formats to PCM and sending that to the receiver. You lose audio quality that way, the only difference is that the receiver says PCM (or LPCM) instead of DTS-HD or TrueHD.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone XS Max ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  April 19, 2018 - 7:16am
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  timstephens24 wrote:

They still support losslessly decoding DTS, DTS-HD MA, AC3, EAC3, TrueHD, etc to PCM. I don't think Infuse saying they support DTS is not true, they just don't currently support "passthrough" since Apple broke it.

My Sony TV runs Android TV, which I like, so I was thinking about a Shield TV as an external device somewhere down the road. I could still use Apple TV for my iTunes library and the Shield TV for all non apple related stuff. This would replace my ROKU most likely so in the end I would have two good streamers, and a physical media player.

  April 19, 2018 - 7:22am
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I have a SHIELD Pro, and it has its own problems. My main issues with the SHIELD is that it can't automatically change color space (BT.709 to BT.2020) and the upscaling is horrid. Both of those the Apple TV does extremely well. I'd rather lose out on no Atmos/DTS-X (where my receiver does a really good job with Neural-X upscaling and Dolby Surround upscaling) than have colorspace issues and horrible upscaling with picture quality issues.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone XS Max ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  April 19, 2018 - 7:32am
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  timstephens24 wrote:

They still support losslessly decoding DTS, DTS-HD MA, AC3, EAC3, TrueHD, etc to PCM. I don't think Infuse saying they support DTS is not true, they just don't currently support "passthrough" since Apple broke it.

I am slowly getting tired of this bouncing back and forth between Firecore and Apple. Actually, I don't care who broke what, I'd just like to know if we can expect passthrough working again in a future update of either tvOS or Infuse or if chances for this are zero. My understanding is that Firecore are working on a solution EVEN THOUGH Apple might not change things back regarding passthrough in tvOS - whatever that solution might be. They haven't been very specific on their efforts, but they should tell us CLEARLY now whether it makes sense or not to hope for passthrough to be implemented again IF Apple doesn't change tvOS.

So I guess there will be one of the following three scenarios:

  1. Apple changes the passthrough feature back to what it was prior tvOS 11.3. That would be the optimal thing as passthrough will simply start to work again in Infuse.
  2. Apple won't touch the passthrough feature again and as a direct result, there's absolutely no chance that the "passthrough" option in Infuse will ever work again.

OR

  1. Apple won't touch the passthrough feature again BUT Firecore nevertheless finds a "workaround", a "solution" or whatever to resolve this APART from the "Auto" setting as it is now.

For the time being, I would be satisfied if Firecore could at least say if no. 2 will happen IF Apple doesn't touch that feature again. Then we would have some clarity at least.

  April 19, 2018 - 7:47am
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  timstephens24 wrote:

I have a SHIELD Pro, and it has its own problems. My main issues with the SHIELD is that it can't automatically change color space (BT.709 to BT.2020) and the upscaling is horrid. Both of those the Apple TV does extremely well. I'd rather lose out on no Atmos/DTS-X (where my receiver does a really good job with Neural-X upscaling and Dolby Surround upscaling) than have colorspace issues and horrible upscaling with picture quality issues.

I have always been a physical media person. I have a Sony UBP-X800 on the 4k TV, and a Sony BDP-S6700 on the 1080p TV. At this point, it seems like the lossless audio was always intended for blu-ray / UHD physical media and that's still the most reliable way to enjoy both 4k / HDR, and lossless audio. The concept of being able to stream the media we own over the home network is a nice concept and when it works, it's a great experience. The problem I mainly see is there is no perfect streaming solution for this combination yet.

Thanks for the info on the Shield, I'll do some more checking around before making a final purchasing desiccation, but it seems to be one of the boxes to go to for lossless audio streaming. FYI, I also have DLNA functionality on the Sony players, and I can do standard DTS, and Dolby that way, but lossless is not well supported for anything but playback from the physical media.

  April 19, 2018 - 7:57am
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I think the discussion deviated a bit now. Infuse on Apple TV can stream lossless audio just fine, LPCM works with up to 7.1 channels provided that your receiver is attached via HDMI (not S/PDIF), no need to switch to the Shield. I think that the scenario of running HDMI from Apple TV to receiver to TV set is the most common one, and that it's a small fraction of Infuse's userbase who chooses to run an old-ish receiver that has no HDMI inputs.

But as I said earlier in this thread, not investing in a new receiver that has HDMI inputs but staying with a legacy receiver and trying to passthrough lossy DTS/DD to such a receiver is a questionable choice given that a lossless DTS-HD/TrueHD track decoded to LPCM and fed into a $200 entry-level receiver would sound much better than a lossy DTS/DD core from the same DTS-HD/TrueHD fed into a $3000 receiver. A $3000 receiver can't turn a lossy 1536kbps/640kbps stream into the equivalent of a 24bit 5Mbit lossless DTS-HD/TrueHD stream.

  April 19, 2018 - 8:14am
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  nickpicker wrote:

I think the discussion deviated a bit now. Infuse on Apple TV can stream lossless audio just fine, LPCM works with up to 7.1 channels provided that your receiver is attached via HDMI (not S/PDIF), no need to switch to the Shield. I think that the scenario of running HDMI from Apple TV to receiver to TV set is the most common one, and that it's a small fraction of Infuse's userbase who chooses to run an old-ish receiver that has no HDMI inputs.

But as I said earlier in this thread, not investing in a new receiver that has HDMI inputs but staying with a legacy receiver and trying to passthrough lossy DTS/DD to such a receiver is a questionable choice given that a lossless DTS-HD/TrueHD track decoded to LPCM and fed into a $200 entry-level receiver would sound much better than a lossy DTS/DD core from the same DTS-HD/TrueHD fed into a $3000 receiver. A $3000 receiver can't turn a lossy 1536kbps/640kbps stream into the equivalent of a 24bit 5Mbit lossless DTS-HD/TrueHD stream.

In my case I have Sound bars that do 5.1 with wireless sub and satellites that can take a direct HDMI connect, while they can't receive the HD audio codecs directly, and only the standard ones, they can receive PCM 5.1 through the HDMI connection. For me though it was more about space and setup why going this route over a full receiver with all wired speakers.. To address your other point here which Apple TV / Infuse never supported from the beginning was people who wanted to use codecs like ATMOS, or DTS X, those don't translate through PCM. As far as my reasons for investigating the Shield wasn't to replace the Apple TV, but the ROKU. The Shield would give me other features besides the lossless compatibility Apple TV doesn't give, such as HDR on Youtube, HDR / 4k on VUDU, the new 350 style video Youtube has now.

So it's more about having a good solid Google powered device too.

One other thing to note. I know HD audio is always going to have a better chance of sounding better over standard. However, when you compare DD and DTS on a DVD, DTS usually always sounds better, and more clear over the Dolby one. It's less compressed.

  April 19, 2018 - 9:19am
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  Taucheranzug wrote:

I am slowly getting tired of this bouncing back and forth between Firecore and Apple. Actually, I don't care who broke what, I'd just like to know if we can expect passthrough working again in a future update of either tvOS or Infuse or if chances for this are zero. My understanding is that Firecore are working on a solution EVEN THOUGH Apple might not change things back regarding passthrough in tvOS - whatever that solution might be. They haven't been very specific on their efforts, but they should tell us CLEARLY now whether it makes sense or not to hope for passthrough to be implemented again IF Apple doesn't change tvOS.

So I guess there will be one of the following three scenarios:

  1. Apple changes the passthrough feature back to what it was prior tvOS 11.3. That would be the optimal thing as passthrough will simply start to work again in Infuse.
  2. Apple won't touch the passthrough feature again and as a direct result, there's absolutely no chance that the "passthrough" option in Infuse will ever work again.

OR

  1. Apple won't touch the passthrough feature again BUT Firecore nevertheless finds a "workaround", a "solution" or whatever to resolve this APART from the "Auto" setting as it is now.

For the time being, I would be satisfied if Firecore could at least say if no. 2 will happen IF Apple doesn't touch that feature again. Then we would have some clarity at least.

Nothing to add
Firecore’s silence is awful
Please, tell us what to expect

  April 19, 2018 - 9:31am
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Hi all,

Looking over all the posts here I thought I should share my experience regarding my quest for best media experience.
I owned previously 2 NVidia Shield TVs but after couple of month of continuing struggle I decided to sell them both and go buy 2 Apple TV 4K instead and trust me I would never go back. Why? For the following reasons:
- as @timstephens24 said there is no automatic color space conversion and the upscalling 1080p - 4k is lousy at best / mainly Android issue and hard to believe the Google might fix it any time soon since it's been years since it was reported and nothing changed
- there is no automatic 24p switch for Netflix, Amazon, HBOGo or the likes, welcome judder unless you go switch manually and restart the Shield
- no chance for Dolby Vision either now or in the future
- it does not have a Dolby licence so either you have a DD+ capable receiver or a TV to transcode to plain DD or you only get stereo
And to be honest for me all the above are deal breakers in term of watching experience.
With ATV 4k you get all the above but they recently broke pass-through which anyway I think only worked for lossy DTS and Dolby Digital and not for the lossless DTS-HD MA or True-HD which were decoded to LPCM.
In the end is a matter of a trade-off: either you want a crappy video experience and all the possible audio formats passed-through (though for this you still need a HDMI receiver) than Shield is the answer or you want the best video experience but you only get LPCM (still lossless sound) or Dolby Digital for audio.

Regarding the issue with Infuse I'm pretty sure that for the moment they can do nothing here until Apple fix this, the same response I also got from MrMC developers.

  April 19, 2018 - 10:00am
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  ionutm80 wrote:

Hi all,

Looking over all the posts here I thought I should share my experience regarding my quest for best media experience.
I owned previously 2 NVidia Shield TVs but after couple of month of continuing struggle I decided to sell them both and go buy 2 Apple TV 4K instead and trust me I would never go back. Why? For the following reasons:
- as @timstephens24 said there is no automatic color space conversion and the upscalling 1080p - 4k is lousy at best / mainly Android issue and hard to believe the Google might fix it any time soon since it's been years since it was reported and nothing changed
- there is no automatic 24p switch for Netflix, Amazon, HBOGo or the likes, welcome judder unless you go switch manually and restart the Shield
- no chance for Dolby Vision either now or in the future
- it does not have a Dolby licence so either you have a DD+ capable receiver or a TV to transcode to plain DD or you only get stereo
And to be honest for me all the above are deal breakers in term of watching experience.
With ATV 4k you get all the above but they recently broke pass-through which anyway I think only worked for lossy DTS and Dolby Digital and not for the lossless DTS-HD MA or True-HD which were decoded to LPCM.
In the end is a matter of a trade-off: either you want a crappy video experience and all the possible audio formats passed-through (though for this you still need a HDMI receiver) than Shield is the answer or you want the best video experience but you only get LPCM (still lossless sound) or Dolby Digital for audio.

Regarding the issue with Infuse I'm pretty sure that for the moment they can do nothing here until Apple fix this, the same response I also got from MrMC developers.

Nicely put, my shield is not being used at all, for all reasons you stated and then some, especially 24p switch on Netflix.

  April 19, 2018 - 11:42am
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  iFrog wrote:

I'm research the possibility of buying the NVIDIA Shield TV to replace my ROKU, so I have apple and google as my main streamers, and still have my UHD blu-ray player for physical media. Maybe Firecore could make a version of Infuse for Android TV, it would be a great app for the Shield TV, and since the Shield TV has USB 3 ports, it has an edge over the Apple TV when it comes to playing media directly from a hard drive, and it has the lossless codec support built in from ground up. Just a thought.

I like the idea to have Infuse version for Shield TV. I have both 4K ATV and Shield TV. Currently, I use Kodi in Shield TV to watch ripped DVD, Bluray, 4K Bluray. It supports all audio format (Dolby Atmos, DTSX,...). However, I really like the way Infuse organize movie library. Also Infuse has much better support for Bluray ISOs. Infuse in Shield TV would be the best solution. I am patiently waiting for Apple to support Dolby Atmos. It's been many months already.

  April 19, 2018 - 10:41pm
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I install the latest Infuse version and, to my surprise, the problem with the Dolby Digital tracks still the same. It’s hard to believe that a major update like that don’t take in into account the users complains. Is an easy problem to test and, I believe, easy to solve, and its not related with with the 11.3 TV iOS update, this problem already existed long before. To test it, just play any video with a Dolby Digital track, with the “Auto” audio option and you will see that the center track is being played at the left speaker. I still in love with Infuse but... Please! Do something...

  April 20, 2018 - 1:24am
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Hi Guys, so let me explain to you my situation. I have an Onkyo Dolby Atmos Receiver connected to an ATV4, i made use of plex's native app for a while and was initially upset that i could get Dolby Atmos sound through the receiver. The sound also was not very good using plex and then i heard about Infuse and i though ok let me give this a try.
I had it setup as passthrough etc, and i must admit although i never got Atmos sound the difference between Plex and Infuse was worlds apart, i could never use the Plex app again in my home theater room.

Im at a crossroads now because i am trying to find a solution whereby Atmos works in conjunction with Plex (Or not) i initially thought of the Nvidia Shield but ive heard too many bad stories (even on this thread about them)

I heard that Apple has indicated that Atmos and DTSX will be supported this year via an update to the ATV4/K

If this were to happen, would this not solve everyone's problems as i'm sure along with these sound profiles they would release support for DTS TRUEHD etc?

  April 20, 2018 - 1:58am
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  colossi wrote:

To test it, just play any video with a Dolby Digital track, with the “Auto” audio option and you will see that the center track is being played at the left speaker. I still in love with Infuse but... Please! Do something...

Cannot confirm this. Dolby Digital tracks play just fine with my setup using the "Auto" option, all channels are correctly played back. But there are others in this thread who encountered your problem, I think.

  April 20, 2018 - 2:07am
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  colossi wrote:

I install the latest Infuse version and, to my surprise, the problem with the Dolby Digital tracks still the same. It’s hard to believe that a major update like that don’t take in into account the users complains. Is an easy problem to test and, I believe, easy to solve, and its not related with with the 11.3 TV iOS update, this problem already existed long before. To test it, just play any video with a Dolby Digital track, with the “Auto” audio option and you will see that the center track is being played at the left speaker. I still in love with Infuse but... Please! Do something...

Similar to issue reported earlier in this thread. I've sent a sample to Firecore, but have not received a response yet.

  April 20, 2018 - 3:48am
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FireCore will never answer to this problem
Or to tell us to set the setting to « auto », LYING to us saying that LPCM delivers « the best audio quality available » BIG LIE !!
They don’t care about DTS simply because 90% of users don’t care neither

  April 20, 2018 - 4:17am
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You might mean it sinisterly but I certainy do! I payed for this app specifically for getting DTS with the passthrough feature! I wouldn't have bought if it didn't have this feature!

  April 20, 2018 - 4:18am
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  Regan Erasmus wrote:

I heard that Apple has indicated that Atmos and DTSX will be supported this year via an update to the ATV4/K

If this were to happen, would this not solve everyone's problems as i'm sure along with these sound profiles they would release support for DTS TRUEHD etc?

Apple hasn't given a timeline for Atmos support, they've just said that it's on their roadmap. That could mean this year or 5 years, no one knows except Apple. They also don't need to support TrueHD while supporting Atmos, since they will most likely only officially support Atmos that plays with EAC-3 tracks and not TrueHD tracks. It's all up to how it's implemented, and there's too much unknown to guess what is going to work and what isn't when Apple adds Atmos support.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone XS Max ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  April 20, 2018 - 4:24am
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  McLarenforever wrote:

FireCore will never answer to this problem
Or to tell us to set the setting to « auto », LYING to us saying that LPCM delivers « the best audio quality available » BIG LIE !!
They don’t care about DTS simply because 90% of users don’t care neither

They've already answered and said they put in a ticket with Apple and have been looking to see if they could do anything but it's more than likely going to need a fix from Apple.

For your PCM comment, what do you think your receiver does to audio? It decodes to PCM and vectors the output to the speaker channels. The only difference with Auto is that Infuse is decoding to PCM and not your receiver. There's no loss in audio quality, the only thing lost is the metadata required for Atmos/DTSX which isn't supported on the Apple TV or through passthrough anyways. There's usually an improvement for DTS since instead of playing the lossy DTS core you're now getting the lossless audio quality from the DTS-HD MA track.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
iPhone XS Max ||| iPad Pro 10.5

  April 20, 2018 - 5:35am
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  ronald.vapelt wrote:

You might mean it sinisterly but I certainy do! I payed for this app specifically for getting DTS with the passthrough feature! I wouldn't have bought if it didn't have this feature!

I did too!! That’s why i’m so upset
I still think we are a minority

  April 20, 2018 - 7:08pm
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https://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=commit;h...

VLC says that apple confirmed that no more passthrough.

  April 21, 2018 - 4:14am
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  diamonddog wrote:

https://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=commit;h...

VLC says that apple confirmed that no more passthrough.

If this is really the case I am pissed! How can I downgrade to 11.2.6??

  April 21, 2018 - 9:13am
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  ronald.vapelt wrote:

If this is really the case I am pissed! How can I downgrade to 11.2.6??

Seems the only option is to take your ATV 4K to the apple store and complain.

I think it was in this thread that a user did that and got their ATV replaced with the 11.2.x original os.

That's the only way I've heard so far.

•Just Another Infuse User• •Not An Employee Of Firecore• •Certified Curmudgeon•

  April 21, 2018 - 10:35am
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This is very bad ! What can we do ?