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  April 23, 2018 - 5:37am
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  timstephens24 wrote:

I can't recreate that issue, but I've read other people saying similar. I would recommend uploading a sample to https://firecore.com/upload and creating a new thread about your issue. After you play the video with that issue, you should also go into settings and 'Submit Diagnostics' and that will give you a 4 digit code you can put in your post as well.

I've already uploaded a couple files to Firecore, Disney's Aladdin, and the first episode from Spider-Man The New Animated Series. No one ever got back to me, and the only confirmation I ever got was from DropBox saying the files uploaded. I never did the diagnostics thing. I will do that at some point.

Should I include a list of my setup(s)? that way Firecore can try to get ahold of the same products to test with ?

  April 23, 2018 - 6:03am
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  iFrog wrote:

I've already uploaded a couple files to Firecore, Disney's Aladdin, and the first episode from Spider-Man The New Animated Series. No one ever got back to me, and the only confirmation I ever got was from DropBox saying the files uploaded. I never did the diagnostics thing. I will do that at some point.

Should I include a list of my setup(s)? that way Firecore can try to get ahold of the same products to test with ?

Maybe you should create a new thread with your sound problem? If you haven’t done so, your messages to firecore are probably getting lost in here because it’s a thread about passthrough not working.

  April 23, 2018 - 7:07am
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  NikG wrote:

Maybe you should create a new thread with your sound problem? If you haven’t done so, your messages to firecore are probably getting lost in here because it’s a thread about passthrough not working.

That's what I did initially, then my issues started crossing over from others into this thread as well. The issues are connected to using passthrough vs auto vs best quality. and how it effects standard DD being sent as PCM. I also mentioned on the other threat I started specifically for these other issues the uploads as well as here.

At this point here are my thoughts and solutions / setup(s)

I have two surround setups, one in the bedroom, and one in the living room. same audio hardware in both, but different TVs, an Apple TV in both, a Blu-ray Player in both, and a ROKU in the living room.

The bedroom is 1080p only so it's easier to work with then the 4K HDR setup for now, just from a compatibility factor.

I have the 2017 VIZIO SB3651-e6 5.1 sound bar for audio in both setup, inputs include HDMI 1.4input and passthrough, optical digital coax, and aux 3.5 mm jack. In addition to google cast audio built into both.

For the bedroom because everything is 1080p, this works nicely as I can add an HDMI switch and get multiple devices to the HDMI input on sound bar so I can get put to PCM 5.1 audio quality, and of course all the standard codecs DD, DTS, DD+.

For the 4K setup in the living room, this is a bit more picky because of the HDMI standard differences. Currently the only Device that gives me a direct HDMI connection to both TV, and audio at the compatible spec, is the SONY UBP-X800 player which has dual HDMI outputs for this purpose. Anything else has to connect directly to the TV, and come out optical for 4K compatibility which is not usually a problem except for the Apple TV. The Sony TV can internally process and passthrough all standard codecs including DD+ which it sends out as standard DD. The built in Android videos app on the TV can send standard DTS DD out, and with DTS MA, the standard core is sent so I get standard DTS. What happens with the Apple TV in this setup is, unless I set it to Dolby Digital 5.1, I only get stereo as the best quality. It doesn't automatically send standard DD in this setup unless forced.

So, that's why the recommended setup here for the time being only works in one setup only for me and where I run into the mixed channels from a standard DD source playing wrong as PCM. If I change to DD 5.1 in apple's settings, it's ok and audio is decoded correctly.

The whole point I've been trying to make is, I can get the desired audio result from either setup, but only from Apple TV in the 1080p setup, and from another device in the 4k one.

I had thought about forcing the 4k ATV into 1080 in the living room as HDR still plays. I've tried it.
Anyway, this is a long post, but I thought if I really spell it out, people might finally get what's going on here.

  April 23, 2018 - 10:13am
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You should make a new thread with all that or if you have another thread post there.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
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  April 23, 2018 - 10:25am
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So , I have the 11.1 and should not upgrade to the 11.3? So is the PCM really that bad? Sorry I am noob when it comes to radio codec and don't understand it all. I have a atmos denon receiver. With 11.1 I don't have the matching feature, but I have the passthrough of DTS. Thinking of upgrading to 11.3, but want to make sure before I do, what I would be missing sound quality wise.

  April 23, 2018 - 10:29am
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  timstephens24 wrote:

You should make a new thread with all that or if you have another thread post there.

Well, I just found another turnoff of InFuse, it can't play my FLAC files. A while back I took a few movies and dumped the DTS and other lossless tracks into a FLAC file so I could listen my movie soundtracks without the video. VLC is playing them on the Apple TV, and the Sony players can stream them. As far as a new thread I don't know what to put this under. The one I created had "Various audio issues" in the title. but people quit responding to that one.

  April 23, 2018 - 11:19am
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  iFrog wrote:

Well, I just found another turnoff of InFuse, it can't play my FLAC files. A while back I took a few movies and dumped the DTS and other lossless tracks into a FLAC file so I could listen my movie soundtracks without the video. VLC is playing them on the Apple TV, and the Sony players can stream them. As far as a new thread I don't know what to put this under. The one I created had "Various audio issues" in the title. but people quit responding to that one.

Infuse doesn't play audio only files. It will play a video file with a FLAC audio track but not a FLAC file by itself.

•Just Another Infuse User• •Not An Employee Of Firecore• •Certified Curmudgeon•

  April 23, 2018 - 11:30am
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  NC Bullseye wrote:

Infuse doesn't play audio only files. It will play a video file with a FLAC audio track but not a FLAC file by itself.

OK, thanks for the info. By the way, I wanted to point out something to those complaining about PCM. If anyone has the Blu-ray of Cars, it doesn't have a lossless Dolby, or DTS track. It's lossless track is LPCM 5.1. So anyone thinking LPCM is lesser quality, it's just not true. The ONLY thing LPCM hinders is specific metadata and flags used to enable ATMOS on Dolby TRUEHH 7.1 tracks (if supported hardware is detected) and it's being bit streamed directly to the receiver.

  April 23, 2018 - 11:37am
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You also lose Dialnorm as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialnorm.

  April 23, 2018 - 1:53pm
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  surfer369 wrote:

So , I have the 11.1 and should not upgrade to the 11.3? So is the PCM really that bad? Sorry I am noob when it comes to radio codec and don't understand it all. I have a atmos denon receiver. With 11.1 I don't have the matching feature, but I have the passthrough of DTS. Thinking of upgrading to 11.3, but want to make sure before I do, what I would be missing sound quality wise.

There's no audio quality lost when you do PCM. The only thing you lose is the light/words on the receiver that say DTS/AC3. You actually gain quality since you're using the lossless DTS-HD MA track vs the lossy DTS core (or the lossless TrueHD track instead of a lossy AC3/EAC3 track) when you use Auto instead of passthrough.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
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  April 23, 2018 - 2:07pm
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  timstephens24 wrote:

There's no audio quality lost when you do PCM. The only thing you lose is the light/words on the receiver that say DTS/AC3. You actually gain quality since you're using the lossless DTS-HD MA track vs the lossy DTS core (or the lossless TrueHD track instead of a lossy AC3/EAC3 track) when you use Auto instead of passthrough.

So setting ATV4k to BSA and infuse to auto, if I play a trueHD 7.1 and DTS MA 7.1, it will display as PCM and will be of same or higher quality? than why is the whole fuss about passthrough and lack thereof?

  April 23, 2018 - 2:28pm
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  surfer369 wrote:

So setting ATV4k to BSA and infuse to auto, if I play a trueHD 7.1 and DTS MA 7.1, it will display as PCM and will be of same or higher quality? than why is the whole fuss about passthrough and lack thereof?

The whole fuss is that people like seeing DTS or Dolby or AC3 or w/e on their receiver. I think of the Tommy Boy quote when they're talking about warranties and Tommy says they make them "feel all warm and toasty inside." The guy responds with "Yeah, makes a man feel good." They don't trust PCM, even though it's exactly the same. They want to see it on the box.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
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  April 23, 2018 - 2:39pm
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  timstephens24 wrote:

The whole fuss is that people like seeing DTS or Dolby or AC3 or w/e on their receiver. I think of the Tommy Boy quote when they're talking about warranties and Tommy says they make them "feel all warm and toasty inside." The guy responds with "Yeah, makes a man feel good." They don't trust PCM, even though it's exactly the same. They want to see it on the box.

Well, that might be true, but for the people that have sound devices that don't support PCM 5.1, but do support DD/DD+/DTS 5.1 and they want the best possible audio from their devices, then passthrough was needed.

  April 23, 2018 - 2:56pm
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  steve.waite wrote:

Well, that might be true, but for the people that have sound devices that don't support PCM 5.1, but do support DD/DD+/DTS 5.1 and they want the best possible audio from their devices, then passthrough was needed.

Yeah generally that was when you go to the TV then to the receiver, and that's problematic. No one wants to have to spend $150 on something like the AVR-Key to split 4K HDMI 2.0 w/ HDCP 2.2 to one device and HDMI 1.4 to an older device. I haven't been able to test from the the ATV to the TV and then to a receiver, but I'll be able to test that out more after I get my stuff moved into my new place in a few weeks.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
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  April 23, 2018 - 3:22pm
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  timstephens24 wrote:

Yeah generally that was when you go to the TV then to the receiver, and that's problematic. No one wants to have to spend $150 on something like the AVR-Key to split 4K HDMI 2.0 w/ HDCP 2.2 to one device and HDMI 1.4 to an older device. I haven't been able to test from the the ATV to the TV and then to a receiver, but I'll be able to test that out more after I get my stuff moved into my new place in a few weeks.

I really don't understand Apple's thinking here. What I mean is there are much cheaper devices such as the ROKU that automatically detect the audio stream and send it it to the receiver. While ROKU doesn't pass multi channel PCM, or HD audio, they support the standard ones + DD+. Apple either makes you force DD 5.1, stereo, or PCM, instead of doing it for you. I think having a Bitstream option would make it a much friendlier to more configurations. Even my Sony player only has 2 audio settings, auto or PCM. There is no reason apple can't do that.

  April 23, 2018 - 4:16pm
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Apple's never public on why they change things, so we could only take wild guesses on why they changed it. It could be that they changed it while messing with it trying to get Atmos working. It could be there never intended it to be used for passthrough but it was just something that was there people used. It could be they're going to add the feature and announce it as part of iOS 12. Who knows. Maybe some writers could pick it up, people complain on reddit and avsforums, then maybe Apple will see that people want it (similar to colorspace and refresh rate switching) and add it in a better state in the future.

Apple TV 4K --> Denon X6500H 7.1.4 --> LG OLED65C6P
======== SYNOLOGY DS1815+ DS513 ========
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  April 23, 2018 - 4:26pm
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A quick update from our end.

Apple responded to our bug report with a request for some specific logs as well a few other specific details. We promptly gathered the requested info and sent it back to them, and are now just waiting for their response. #fingerscrossed

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  April 23, 2018 - 4:42pm
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  timstephens24 wrote:

Apple's never public on why they change things, so we could only take wild guesses on why they changed it. It could be that they changed it while messing with it trying to get Atmos working. It could be there never intended it to be used for passthrough but it was just something that was there people used. It could be they're going to add the feature and announce it as part of iOS 12. Who knows. Maybe some writers could pick it up, people complain on reddit and avsforums, then maybe Apple will see that people want it (similar to colorspace and refresh rate switching) and add it in a better state in the future.

I know, and I'm OK with that. I was just saying a cheaper product being able to handle different situations better then something Premium like an Apple TV just doesn't feel right.In this case I'm talking about just using the product with apple's built in services such as iTunes movies, as well as well supported services such as Netflix, prime video, and VUDU (for me) the only way to get 5.1 is to force it to re-encode everything to DD 5.1 instead of being able to automatically determine. Best Quality in theory should automatically send DD 5.1 over stereo PCM. While the PCM is uncompressed, a stereo stream is still lower quality then something that can use all the speakers, at least, one would think.

By the way, I also own a copy of MrMC and it has many of the issues inFuse does when it comes to passthrough, and in correcting decoding audio to PCM, and having the wrong channels play through the wrong speakers. Just mentioning that to say it's pretty bad when two different products have the same issue.

  April 23, 2018 - 5:58pm
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I guess this passthrough removal by Apple pretty much puts to rest any questions about whether or not they're going to allow bitstream output of DTS-HD MA and Dobly TrueHD audio formats.

  April 23, 2018 - 6:59pm
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  KBJ wrote:

I guess this passthrough removal by Apple pretty much puts to rest any questions about whether or not they're going to allow bitstream output of DTS-HD MA and Dobly TrueHD audio formats.

I wanted to make a correction to the problem; I reported regarding incorrect audio channels being played in InFuse with Apple Setting set to Best Quality, and InFuse set to Auto, on the Setup connected directly by HDMI allowing PCM 5.1. The Center channel is actually played through both the center, and right front speakers. It's just more pronounced on the right so it was hard to tell the first time.

I also found the support options in InFuse settings so will also send the code listed there to the email specified.

  April 23, 2018 - 7:39pm
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  KBJ wrote:

I guess this passthrough removal by Apple pretty much puts to rest any questions about whether or not they're going to allow bitstream output of DTS-HD MA and Dobly TrueHD audio formats.

This is most definitely a side effect of some other feature change, and not something they removed intentionally.

We remain hopefully they will be able to get it resolved soon.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  April 23, 2018 - 7:46pm
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  james wrote:

This is most definitely a side effect of some other feature change, and not something they removed intentionally.

We remain hopefully they will be able to get it resolved soon.

Hopefully. While I don't use bitstream output currently if they implemented hires audio output I'd definitely be there for that.

  April 24, 2018 - 1:39am
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  james wrote:

Apple responded to our bug report with a request for some specific logs as well a few other specific details.

Just to be totally clear - which "bug" are we talking about here? The bug regarding the PCM 5.1 center channel being played on the wrong position if you set the ATV to "best sound option" (which doesn't have to do anything with the "passthrough" issue being the title of this thread) or indeed the "missing passthrough" situation itself? Because if the latter is the case, we now see it's getting obvious that disabling passthrough was done by Apple on purpose after all, so "it's not a bug, it's a feature" (as they say Frown ), right? But then again, it wouldn't make sense for them to request any logs about this....

I'm somehow getting a bit confused here...

  April 24, 2018 - 7:57am
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  Taucheranzug wrote:

Just to be totally clear - which "bug" are we talking about here? The bug regarding the PCM 5.1 center channel being played on the wrong position if you set the ATV to "best sound option" (which doesn't have to do anything with the "passthrough" issue being the title of this thread) or indeed the "missing passthrough" situation itself? Because if the latter is the case, we now see it's getting obvious that disabling passthrough was done by Apple on purpose after all, so "it's not a bug, it's a feature" (as they say Frown ), right? But then again, it wouldn't make sense for them to request any logs about this....

I'm somehow getting a bit confused here...

This particular thread is about the AC3/DTS passthrough option which is broken due to an Apple bug in tvOS 11.3.

We're not seeing any issues with PCM and channel mapping on our end, so it's likely there may be some other environmental factors at play. To best troubleshoot this (or any other issue) please open a support ticket (https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-us/articles/215090927-Troubleshooting...) or start a new topic so we can work more effectively to track down what's going on.

Thanks! Smile

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  April 24, 2018 - 8:19am
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  james wrote:

This particular thread is about the AC3/DTS passthrough option which is broken due to an Apple bug in tvOS 11.3.

Thanks for the reply. So you think this is really a bug and wasn't done on purpose by Apple? I (and obviously some others here in this thread) have been under the impression that Apple deliberately "switched off" passthrough with iOS 11.3...

So please let us know as soon as Apple in fact confirms that it's a bug - because this would mean that it might get fixed in a future update whereas this most probably would not happen if they disabled passthrough on purpose....!

  April 24, 2018 - 8:25am
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  Taucheranzug wrote:

Thanks for the reply. So you think this is really a bug and wasn't done on purpose by Apple? I (and obviously some others here in this thread) have been under the impression that Apple deliberately "switched off" passthrough with iOS 11.3...

So please let us know as soon as Apple in fact confirms that it's a bug - because this would mean that it might get fixed in a future update whereas this most probably would not happen if they disabled passthrough on purpose....!

Based on what is actually broken we are certain it's a bug. Also, the fact they requested more details regarding the issue instead of flat out saying something like "it's no longer supported" is a good sign and is consistent with our analysis of the issue. Now, whether Apple decides it needs to be addressed right away or not is anyone's guess.

I'll post an update once we hear back from them.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  April 24, 2018 - 8:34am
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...that's all most interesting, James! Thanks for the heads-up! I was hoping to be reassured that it's most probably a real bug and not something they planned to do!

  April 24, 2018 - 10:01am
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  james wrote:

A quick update from our end.

Apple responded to our bug report with a request for some specific logs as well a few other specific details. We promptly gathered the requested info and sent it back to them, and are now just waiting for their response. #fingerscrossed

I met with Apple turkey. They said they did not receive any feedback from you regarding this error. I passed the details to Apple in detail. On Thursday, Apple will answer.

Also, the error is not only DTS writing on the screen, it does not support multi-channel 5 + 1 pcm in old receivers. So the sound is stereo.

  April 24, 2018 - 10:13am
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  serif83 wrote:

I met with Apple turkey. They said they did not receive any feedback from you regarding this error. I passed the details to Apple in detail. On Thursday, Apple will answer.

Also, the error is not only DTS writing on the screen, it does not support multi-channel 5 + 1 pcm in old receivers. So the sound is stereo.

Apple is a large company, and likely receives hundreds if not thousands of bug reports every day. Each report is somewhat compartmentalized to a specific department, so it's unlikely anyone outside the group responsible for looking into that specific issue would have (or need) access. I can assure you the bug was most definitely reported, and we did receive a response.

Also, if your receiver doesn't support 6ch PCM, then the Apple TV should gracefully switch to Dolby Digital or stereo, depending on what the Apple TV thinks your receiver can support. If you prefer, you can force Dolby Digital (AC3) by switching from Best Quality Available to Dolby Digital in Settings > Video and Audio > Surround Sound.

Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

  April 24, 2018 - 1:20pm
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  james wrote:

This particular thread is about the AC3/DTS passthrough option which is broken due to an Apple bug in tvOS 11.3.

We're not seeing any issues with PCM and channel mapping on our end, so it's likely there may be some other environmental factors at play. To best troubleshoot this (or any other issue) please open a support ticket (https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-us/articles/215090927-Troubleshooting...) or start a new topic so we can work more effectively to track down what's going on.

Thanks! Smile

James, I have found the thread I originally started regarding the various audio issues I've had, and have been posting updates there.