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#1  July 15, 2018 - 12:04pm
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Hi everyone, I'm totally aware of the many discussions on this topic, but they all seem to stray from the original problem into a debate about why do it rather than how to fix it.

There IS an issue with HDR Tone Mapping, but it's pretty minor. Bright scenes look amazing and better than their non-HDR counterpart. Dark scenes are too dark. Some of the data is getting lost and I believe it's due to the HDR Tone Mapping Algorithm.

There are 6x algorithms for converting the HDR color map to an SDR color map (that I'm aware of):

  • clip
  • mobius
  • reinhard
  • hable
  • gamma, and
  • linear
  • It's possible that depending on the SDR screen or content, it may be necessary to switch. I'm honestly not sure, but I can definitely say that all HDR movies and shows that I watch have the problem I described above on 2x SDR screens that I've tested. To be clear, the content looks perfect on my HDR screen.

    James, would you be open to implementing an option that allows the user to choose which method is used?

    I think this will end the frustration that I'm sure at least a small population of Infuse users are having and it will end the need for people to continue to debate the why.

      July 16, 2018 - 2:42pm
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    Good question!

    Unfortunately, there's no perfect solution for HDR > SDR mapping. Each method features different strengths and weaknesses, and generally there isn't much variance between how one type manifests on different TV models. In essence, you have a choice between the 3 major attributes: luminance, color, and detail - and you only get to pick 2.

    We've done a fair amount of testing for what works well with the Apple TV when paired with a handful of different SDR sets (ranging from an entry-level LG all the way up to Sony's $8,000 flagship 4K SDR set from 2015), and the recipe we currently have Infuse seems to be the best compromise we could find.

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      July 16, 2018 - 2:45pm
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    Is there no way to allow users to adjust these things in options (with a button to reset back to FireCore Preferred)?

      July 16, 2018 - 2:47pm
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    Not at this time. Sorry.

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      July 21, 2018 - 5:21am
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    I think this is necessary. I have films I can't watch in my calibrated non-HDR tv because they are are almost black, like Harry Potter 1.

      May 17, 2019 - 7:16am
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    Any updates to this? Last weekend I tried watching my HDR Aquaman rip and it was very dark compared to the SDR version.

      May 17, 2019 - 7:30am
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    Sadly, I had to go back to the Plex app (latest beta). It does a slightly better (still not great) job of HDR tone mapping than Infuse.

      May 17, 2019 - 12:42pm
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    We made a number of changes towards the end of last year in the 5.8.1 update (https://firecore.com/releases). Right now, we're not aware of any outstanding issues.

    FWIW, converting HDR to SDR is not a 1:1 process, so there will almost always be some differences between a converted HDR video and its SDR counterpart.

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      May 17, 2019 - 12:50pm
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    Last night, with the latest version, bright scenes look great and dark scenes are too dark. The balance isn't right. On Plex, the dark scenes are brighter, but the light scenes don't look as nice as Infuse. This is due to different choices in the tone mapping algorithm, right? If so, please use a different one that's not so punishing to dark scenes.

      May 20, 2019 - 11:42am
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    Getting better blacks is possible, but it comes at the expense of loss of quality in light scenes, with bright colors having an overexposed effect.

    If you'd like to compare, a link to a set of samples can be found at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yxq3rrsqtp2hq47/AAD... These images show the 'before' level (5.8.0 and earlier), 'now' level (5.8.1 and later), and a hypothetical 'other' level. As you can see there was a noticeable improvement in the reworked algorithm in 5.8.1 - with darks being displayed better, without much change in light scenes. The 'other' level does better with darks, but degrades lighter colors.

    Our goal with the changes added in 5.8.1 was to provide a balance of light, dark, and color accuracy, and display a picture that is generally pleasing to the eye. The feedback we've received from these changes has been overwhelmingly positive, though I can understand different people may have sensitivities to different things.

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      May 20, 2019 - 2:40pm
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    James, you nailed it. These screens look almost like you took them from my home theater. I remember seeing the change from before to now and feeling hopeful that it would continue to move in that direction.

    For my setup, I'm trying to compare the true SDR version of each film to the HDR>SDR conversion to figure out what is most accurate. On (now) 3x different screens that I've tested, the HDR version always comes out darker on dark scenes in Infuse on Apple TV 4K, but closer (still a bit darker) on the Plex AppleTV 4K App. On Plex; however, I'm not seeing brights being blown out.. they just don't like as vivid (or maybe bright). It seems like they crushed the spectrum instead of offsetting it.

    Is there no mapping that can crush the spectrum a bit so that we can get brighter darks, but not blow out lights? How is Plex doing it?

      August 29, 2019 - 10:27am
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    Quick update.

    We have another round of tone mapping improvements coming soon in 6.1.6. Smile

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      August 29, 2019 - 10:30am
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    Thank you!

    I promise that it's a worthy investment for the long term.

      August 29, 2019 - 1:45pm
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      james wrote:

    Hello,
    I noticed problem with bad looking font in Infuse
    This is infuse vs plex:
    https://imgur.com/a/ckIKZCW

      September 19, 2019 - 1:14pm
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      james wrote:

    Quick update.

    We have another round of tone mapping improvements coming soon in 6.1.6. Smile

    Yes please !
    My projector is actualy HDR capable, but I find the extra dynamic you can get is not worth the added fan noise and the reduced lifetime of the lamp, so I like to keep my AppleTV set to SDR.
    Like others, I noticed that there is something wrong with black levels in the BT2020 to REC709 conversion in Infuse.

    Really hoping 6.1.6 will help !
    Any release date ? Or maybe a beta ? Would love to help If I can !

    And FYI, in the 3-set of images you linked to, I would always go for the « other » choice. On a calibrated REC709 projo it does a very decent job on light tones and is much better in the dark tones than the current setting. No doubt.

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      September 19, 2019 - 9:16pm
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      RCO_69 wrote:

    Yes please !
    My projector is actualy HDR capable, but I find the extra dynamic you can get is not worth the added fan noise and the reduced lifetime of the lamp, so I like to keep my AppleTV set to SDR.
    Like others, I noticed that there is something wrong with black levels in the BT2020 to REC709 conversion in Infuse.

    Really hoping 6.1.6 will help !
    Any release date ? Or maybe a beta ? Would love to help If I can !

    And FYI, in the 3-set of images you linked to, I would always go for the « other » choice. On a calibrated REC709 projo it does a very decent job on light tones and is much better in the dark tones than the current setting. No doubt.

    6.1.6 is waiting for tvos 13 gm which hasn't been released yet. potentially they are releasing it alongside ios 13.1, or maybe saving its release for October event...

    Apple TV 4, Apple TV 3, iPhone Xs, iMac 5k, iPad Pro, Airport Extreme, Airport Express, Synology DS916+

      September 20, 2019 - 6:10am
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    Apparently, tvOS 13 is supposed to come at the end of the month, while iOS 13.1 is now supposed to be released on September 24th. God knows what bugs exist in iOS 13.0 that they had to reschedule the release of 13.1 a week early.

      September 22, 2019 - 5:19am
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    Today I compared plex with mpv hdr to sdr is great and subtitle looks also look great. I hope infuse will be looks soon the same or better,

      September 24, 2019 - 12:19pm
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    Now much better Smile I'm going testing more.

      September 24, 2019 - 12:36pm
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      bl4ck wrote:

    Now much better Smile I'm going testing more.

    What do you mean ? 6.1.6 is out ?

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      September 24, 2019 - 12:39pm
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      RCO_69 wrote:

    What do you mean ? 6.1.6 is out ?

    6.1.7 is now available for both iOS and Apple TV. Smile

    https://firecore.com/releases

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      September 24, 2019 - 12:59pm
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      james wrote:

    6.1.7 is now available for both iOS and Apple TV. Smile
    https://firecore.com/releases

    Just ran my test with Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban : the scene when harry walks in the dark at the beginning was completely horrible before, it was just too dark. Now it’s almost perfect ! 🙃
    I looked at the bright scenes too, and you did great job not burning them. Sounds pretty good to me, good job !👍👍👍

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      September 24, 2019 - 1:03pm
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      RCO_69 wrote:

    Just ran my test with Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban : the scene when harry walks in the dark at the beginning was completely horrible before, it was just too dark. Now it’s almost perfect ! 🙃
    I looked at the bright scenes too, and you did great job not burning them. Sounds pretty good to me, good job !👍👍👍

    Awesome! 😀 🙌

    Infuse 6 for iOS and Apple TV is now available!

      October 1, 2019 - 3:22am
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    Thx for the fix which I still need to test, I've been waiting for this a long time.

    So on a 1080p projector, which is better... the Bluray or the Ultra-HD version ?
    Will the latter be sharper and cleanr but with less accurate colours and contrast ?
    Which one do you prefer ?

      October 1, 2019 - 8:38am
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    This is a massive improvement! I'm back to using Infuse as my main player.

    In doing A-B testing though, I do like Plex's HDR>SDR tone mapping SLIGHTLY more. I think it's slightly brighter in darker scenes and about the same for lighter scenes. Does anyone know which algorithm they're using?

      October 1, 2019 - 10:11am
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      Ashkaan wrote:

    This is a massive improvement! I'm back to using Infuse as my main player.

    In doing A-B testing though, I do like Plex's HDR>SDR tone mapping SLIGHTLY more. I think it's slightly brighter in darker scenes and about the same for lighter scenes. Does anyone know which algorithm they're using?

    You tried premium version? if yes, than plex uses MPV.

      October 1, 2019 - 10:27am
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    Yes, I have premium for both.

    What does Infuse use?

      October 1, 2019 - 10:50am
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    I think this is author's code.

      October 1, 2019 - 11:15am
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    Any chance we can have an option for MPV?

      October 1, 2019 - 11:22am
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    Last I looked at mpv on master and mpv for IINA (macOS player based on mpv), mpv's tonemapping wasn't good at all. A lot of clipping and inaccurate colors.

      October 1, 2019 - 11:28am
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    What do you think between Infuse v. Plex?

    Right now, with my eye, Plex looks more accurate to what I'm expecting to see.